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 The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread

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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 14, 2014 2:32 am

Thanks Stef, great pics!  cheers 

And thanks to both of you Alex and Stef for your input on the chest depression and also the sprue break!  Very Happy 

Seems we have just one feature that distinguishes the two families, the two bump patterns on the feet that only appear on family II (LL).

As for the sprue break, I think it's not a distinguishing feature. Maybe family II has it more often and mostly of larger sizes than family I but we've seen now quite a lot of family I figures that show this feature. Therefore I will remove it from my description.  Crying or Very sad 

As for the depression on the chest ... I think you're right it's a casting error and not a mould characteristic but has anyone seen it on a family I figure yet? And is it a widespread feature on Ledy Squids? We have already heard of one figure (Steve's) that has no depression on the chest. Maybe we could include this feature in the description like this: "Family II often has a depression on the chest -family I has no depression on the chest. NOTE: This is not a mould characteristic but a casting error!" Or should I remove it too? :scratch:
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 14, 2014 2:48 am

Yes Patrick, just do like you said and put 'note' as it does appear so far to happen quite often on the LL Squids.
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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 14, 2014 4:09 am

Stef gave me the permission to use his pics, so I can add the second bump pattern to the Squid Head sheet.  cheers Thanks, Stef!

Also I will add the note to the chest depression feature and remove the sprue break pics. I will do the modifications asap.  Wink
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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 14, 2014 8:22 am


Just updated the Squid Head sheet Very Happy 

That's the new pic:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Squidheadfeetx2jx4
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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 16, 2014 8:15 am

Added this pic to the sheet to show the different bump pattern types better:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Squidheadtoes-markeddyuwg
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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2014 12:56 pm


Prune Face


First off, Prune Face has two mould families not one as I ever thought!

While checking the missing figures (and despairing again and again of them head bang ),
I had the idea to have a look at Prune Face. Probably the only figure - apart from the Last 17s -
I only had one(!) exemplar in my collection Embarassed !

So I checked pics of Prune Face on the web. And surprisingly fast I saw he has two mould familys.
I immediately bought my second Prune Face and here it is Very Happy :


The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Pfcompjys9f
The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Pfcoogzsg2


The probably best way to describe the differences between the two families is to say that family II is
moulded much more detailed than family I. Nearly every single crease of his uniform appears mor precise.

It's also possible to distinguish the two families by the colour of the trousers (I not discoloured - II discoloured).
(The colour of the eyes (I yellow eyes - II orange eyes) I thought is a distinctive feature too, but Alex has both
eye colours on figures that represent the same family. Sad ) These features are of course no mould differences! Wink


The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Pffront-marked2g2ckg
The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Pfleft-markedeks8h
The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Pfback-marked66s83

I less detailed - II more detailed


The completely different looking areas where the COOs where originally in the steel moulds show also that there are two different mould families:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Pfremcoo-marked5mcsx

I remnants of "HONG KONG" - II larger remnants (probably of "MADE IN HONG KONG" IMO)


Also the capes differ:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Pfcapes-markedp6shm

I larger, step below the hood - II smaller, no step


Notes:
Family I appears on cards with factory code HG and goes with rifle V1 in the IG guide.
Family II appears on cards with factory code HN and goes with rifle V2 in the IG guide.
The Lili Ledy version is mould family II. Therefore its rifle V3 is just a V2 with mirror inverted EPMs IMO.



Last edited by pattejan on Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2014 1:08 pm

Thanks for the Prune Face contribution, Patrick. Very Happy

The differences between mould families I and II are mostly reflecting (only) the degree of details (less or more pronounced). Might this be due to differences in the used plastic, so we are actually not looking at mould differences per se.

About the gun: agree.

A long time ago, some dude wrote:


RIFLE:
Prune Face came with a Western style V1 mould rifle. The mould is not unique for Ledy as it was also used by Kenner. The main difference is the colour of the used plastic: reddish brown (Lili Ledy) vs brown (Kenner).

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Dia96

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Dia97

REMARK: In TIG’s reference guide the V3 mould (see below) has been uniquely linked to Lili Ledy. This is wrong IMO, and should be updated.
EDIT: Confirmed by OZIO. Very Happy

V3 mould rifle. Having mould circles on the opposite site compared to the V1 mould.
Source: http://www.imperialgunnery.com/theriflessection.htm

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 PruneFaceRifle_V3_LL


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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2014 1:32 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Thanks for the Prune Face contribution, Patrick.  Very Happy

The differences between mould families I and II are mostly reflecting (only) the degree of details (less or more pronounced). Might this be due to differences in the used plastic, so we are actually not looking at mould differences per se.

About the gun: agree.
...


Hey Marco, I have to disagree with your appraisal. I really do think it's a mould difference. If you look close enough to the right legs you can see remnants of the COOs which were erased before production started. These COO remnants differ IMO. And when you compare Prune Face MOCs you will find two different factory codes HG and HN.

As for the rifles I have to admit that I didn't looked up your Prune Face entry in the Lili ledy Guide ... sorry Embarassed .

But I think there is a small mistake. It's rifle V2 that is identical to V3.
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2014 2:00 pm

@pattejan wrote:



Hey Marco, I have to disagree with your appraisal. I really do think it's a mould difference. If you look close enough to the right legs you can see remnants of the COOs which were erased before production started. These COO remnants differ IMO. And when you compare Prune Face MOCs you will find two different factory codes HG and HN.

Just challenging the concept of having two mould families. Fair enough, two factory codes mean two different factories, and thus likely two different (pairs of) steel moulds. That makes sense.  

@pattejan wrote:

As for the rifles I have to admit that I didn't looked up your Prune Face entry in the Lili ledy Guide ... sorry Embarassed .

No worries, that's not what I implied, just posted the old quote to back up and support what you said about the rifles.

@pattejan wrote:

But i think there is a small mistake. It's rifle V2 that is identical to V3.

Hmmm. looking at the entry on the main site, it is not all too clear.

http://www.imperialgunnery.com/riflessection.htm

Trying to summarize :

So we have V2 which seems to be V3 with only the EPMs facing the other side. Assuming these guns were oriented mirror wise they could be from the same steel mould.

And then we have V1. Which was also used by Ledy.  unsure
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2014 2:33 pm

Good work Patrick,

Might want to remove the eye colour bit, I have both eye colours and both appear to be from the same family.
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Commander Clint
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2014 3:20 pm

Excellent work Patrick. cheers
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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 20, 2014 2:37 am

Thanks Alex and Clint, glad you like it! Very Happy

Alex, are you really sure you have both eye colours on one family? Couldn't it be the case that the colour of the eyes has faded on one of your figs and therefore looks different? Which family is it? Could you please post pics or email them to me? I've found pics of 8 family I MOCs and the eyes of all the figures appear yellow. On the other hand I've found 5 family II MOCs and their eyes appear orange!? :scratch: However I've modified my remark concerning eye colours and changed the pic.

Marco, no offence taken and no offence intended!  Very Happy  I'm just trying to defend my observations. The family I MOCs (HG factory code) I found are 77 and 79 backs, the family II MOCs (HN factory code) are 77 backs and a 65 Back from Kenner Canada. I've also found pics of 4 Trilogos, the figs on that cards all have orange eyes but I can't see the leg colour nor the sculpt details because of the figures robe. Also Trilogos have no factory code on them, so I'm just guessing they're family II ones. But who knows if the eye colour maybe isn't a distinctive feature ... so the different factories must have produced Prune Face figures simultaneously and therefore must have had their own different steel moulds.

I've also added a comparison pic of the removed COO areas of the figures to show they are completely different which indicates they're from different steel moulds:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Pfremcoo-marked5mcsx

I remnants of "HONG KONG" - II larger remnants (probably of "MADE IN HONG KONG" IMO)


As for the rifle moulds I'm completely confused now!  unsure It makes no sense to me that LL used both moulds unless they did not use both figure moulds ... but why should they do that???  unsure  unsure  unsure
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 20, 2014 10:08 am

Here are my two Patrick, both from the same family with orange and yellow eye. I have had a look and I would not consider this to be discoloured.

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Sany2810

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Sany2811

Sorry that the [pics aren't great, the weather is beak out here this week Sad
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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 20, 2014 10:36 am

Thanks for your pics, Alex!  cheers

I agree that it's two different colours within family I it seems and most likely not discoloured. Crying or Very sad
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10, 2014 5:33 pm

Prune Face link added, thank you Patrick for the sheet Very Happy

New

Droid Factory R2-D2 - Special Report

Follow the link in the POTF & Other Chracters section on page 1 Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10, 2014 5:48 pm

Nice to see that Palitoy R2 droids factory addition! (as well as everything else of course Smilecheers
Very cool! 

cheers!
Very Happy
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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16, 2014 9:43 am


Weequay

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Weequayfrontvzzl3
The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Weequaycoo0wxn5

Not really obvious but nevertheless also Weequay has two mould families.
Both families' sculpts look pretty much identical even the COOs are very similar.
But there are two distinguishing features that tell us clearly there are two different moulds.


That's the fingers of the right hand:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Weequayrhs5rb8n
The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Weequayrhdepx0m

Index and middle finger are longer on I than on II


And it's the peghole's position:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 Weequaypegholesqjz8g

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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 01, 2014 10:43 am


4-LOM


The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 14lomfrontc5o8v
The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 24lomcoo68rhm


It's not easy to distinguish the two 4-LOM mould families. Even the COOs are looking quite similar.
But there are cardbacks with HN and HT factory codes. That means there are two families.

Family I has a MIHK COO and was later on altered to a "scarred no COO" for the PBP figure.
Family II has nearly the same MIHK COO and was later on altered to a "smoothed no COO".


It's possible to distinguish the two 4-LOM mould families by the thickness of the thumbs and the shape of the fingers:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 34lomrighthand5yr16

I has a smaller thumb on the right hand - II has a thicker thumb on the right hand.


The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 44lomlefthand3eoqn

I has a smaller thumb on the left hand - II has a thicker thumb on the left hand.
The fingers on the left hand are of different lenghts.

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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 01, 2014 10:55 am

Thank you for sharing your great research, Patrick! :clap:
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 12, 2015 8:20 am

Well guys, I think it's time to revise the C-3PO removable limbs entry!  What a Face


I've found this COO on a C-3PO removable limbs figure, which is completely new to me. Maybe some of you might know it already but I have never seen it before. Here it is:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 C3porlunknowncoo3cutp


Some of you probably know that I think I've made a mistake on the C-3PO removable limbs sheet in the Mould Guide.  Embarassed

I'm convinced there are three not just two Mould families for this figure. At first I mistakenly thought the large copyright No COO figure (new family III) is related to the large copyright HK figure (old family II) because of the similar (if not identical) mould features on these figures which differ from the traits of the small copyright family (old family I).

These are some pics of my old C-3PO removable limbs sheet (the traits of the new family III are the same as on family II):

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 C3porlknees-markedqku0l

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 C3porlbolt-marked10u1l


But when I compared the COO areas again I saw that the No COO version is not derived from the HK one because those areas differ very much.

And I'm also convinced I've found a distinguishing feature between the old family II and new family III: The thickness of the figures' toes.

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 C-3poleftfoot-moulddiiqufu

Although I would need confirmation from other collectors on that!  :SOS:

Could you please check your family III figures (Ledy or Kenner) if the toes are always like they are on my figs? Thanks!


The new COO and the No COO figure match up regarding the COO area.

And therefore I'm even more sure it's a third family!

Here's a comparison pic:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 C3pofamilies-markedsdmu38

In the upper row you can see the three different HK families and underneath the corresponding No COO versions.


Any thoughts on this?

Cheers
Patrick

P.S. Some of the pics aren't as clear as they could be but I think you can see what I wanted to say.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 12, 2015 9:09 am

I had these out recently- noticed again the two different backpack nets. Will need to check for this third mould.
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