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 The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread

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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 12:20 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
...and what's with the LL????  What a Face What a Face What a Face 

Oh, yes sorry, three families with the unique LL COO  Embarassed 

I have 4 Hong Kong Gam's and all have the EPM, there is a definate three COO variations for Hong Kong, I've pretty much got both legs covered on this so this means that every single Hong Kong figure will have these EPM on them.
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 1:06 pm

Pegholes were made by using metal pins piercing through the freshly injection moulded figure?
In that case the shape of the pegholes would be determined by the type of pins used in that respective factory and not by the type of steelmould.

And consequently the shape of the pegholes would NOT be a mould characteristic. Still a strong link between a mould family and the shape of a peghole is possible and can be explained assuming the steel moulds of a certain family were  in usage within the same toy factory.

This reasoning makes sense to you, guys?
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 1:17 pm

@pattejan wrote:


I agree that these leads could mean that there are just two families ... but why are the positions of the PEG holes not identical on Macau and HK?  unsure

The different peg holes  between the HK and Macau Gam Guards can easily be explained, as these figures were produced by different factories, each having its own distinctive pins.

So in general the shape of pegholes is a factory characteristic, not so much a mould characteristic (following the reasoning in the previous post).


Last edited by Dr Dengar on Sat May 03, 2014 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 1:23 pm

It's not the 'shape' of the pegholes but the position of the mould seam/ parting line in respect to the peghole. Different mould 'halves' = different mould family (in general)
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 1:33 pm

@aussiejames wrote:
It's not the 'shape' of the pegholes but the position of the mould seam/ parting line in respect to the peghole.  Different mould 'halves' =  different mould family  (in general)

Thanks James, that helped.

Ok, I understand now. It is about the position of the peg holes, not the shape. That was not clear to me. Like you say, the position is determined by the mould. Same for the position of EPMs.

You can now just ignore my two previous posts, wrong reasoning. Very Happy
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 1:44 pm

hmm...I am not sure (never investigated it further) if Macau and HK are the same....but:

1. We have no coo with dots left from H.K. and No coo from Macau stamped figures

2. The LFL leg seems close but I have 4 or 5 different and not one that matches a H.K. (compared to Macau)

...so I am with Patrick...not totally sure these are the same!?!?!?

I am not really good with ROTJ ...though

Anyway: I would stay away from PEG holes also. PEG holes are made AFTER the steelmolds were finished and duplicated. So it is possible that the very same Coo/Mold etc...can have different PEG hole positions.....just in case...just leave them alone I would say!

What is unique and more important is the "flashing" line between the two halfes of the steelmold. these can differ between the families....heavily!!

i know that this mostly goest with the postion of the PEG holes, but just in case...I would go for the lines only!

just my 2 cents
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 2:05 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
...and what's with the LL????  What a Face What a Face What a Face 

Wollf, ... oh ... yes the LL ... I fear my eyes are not good enough. I also found no differences on him but the peg holes (position  Wink ) look very similar to the Macau Gammy  unsure unsure unsure 

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggllstrkdk


 unsure unsure unsure 


@General Kahn wrote:
... the detail on the chest circle, Hong Kong a 'speckled' pattern and H.K. doesn't it is smooth ...

Alex, I fear I am blind or stupid or maybe I didn't get it ...
What I thought is 'speckled' I can find on my Hong Kong, but also my both Macaus have some speckles (not as much as the Hong Kong but they are there). My HK and my two No COOs (ex HK) as well as my feint Macau have even less speckles but are not completely smooth. And my Ledy has speckles almost like the Hong Kong ...



@Dr Dengar wrote:
@aussiejames wrote:
It's not the 'shape' of the pegholes but the position of the mould seam/ parting line in respect to the peghole.  Different mould 'halves' =  different mould family  (in general)

... Ok, I understand now. It is about the position of the peg holes, not the shape. That was not clear to me. Like you say, the position is determined by the mould. Same for the position of EPMs. ...

To make my confusion complete: Why are the LL peg holes so similar to the Macau peg holes???
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 2:09 pm

In general: There is very less differneces on ROTJ figures....if you exclude Biker or Leia Boushh which are obvious like hell...LOL

There are many explanations for that but well..worthless without proof.

I have checked my archive and have found nothing on GG. But I was sure I have found a pretty good difference onces....hmmmmm


Last edited by wbobafett on Sat May 03, 2014 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 2:17 pm

Macau is 100% different to HK and Hong Kong!!

I have checked now my figures...not the same family at all! So 4 families on GG!!
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 5:05 pm

I can also agree on the H.K and Macau differences, I have 3 H.K. and 3 Macau and all though the L.F.L leg stamp looks very much the same, none match, which would be a total number of 'moulds' for one family more than any other, which is highly unlikely, so we can there fore assume that the Macau is a unique family.

Patrick I will post a couple of pics tomorrow of the 'speckled' bit so we know we're talking about the same thing  Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 04, 2014 6:32 am

Yeah Alex, totally mathces my observations. But I agree with you that the Macau coo was altered. The problem here is: It was altered from the beginning. In ROTJ area there is a few altered Coos which never were released in their "original" form, means with their original Coo stamped on.

Explanations for that can be foubnd in the "factory codes" thread.  Wink Very Happy

I name one example: Raised bar China Tie Pilot!!  Razz

An I agree with Patrick....The LL and Macau are very close. I first thought I have fond sth but it is not present on all my Macaus....hmmm....

he only thing I have found is (looking from the front, to the left) a detail in the felt. It is a crease which is a) short or b) long

- Macau: short, additional flashing to the feet
- HK: short, no additional falshing to the feet
- Hong Kong: long, no additional falshing to the feet
- LL: long, additional falshing to teh feet

So without using the PEG holes I can find two points which combinations seem to be unique.

it would be better to find four different in one place but well...seems impossible on GG I guess??
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed May 07, 2014 1:08 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
... only thing I have found is (looking from the front, to the left) a detail in the felt. It is a crease which is a) short or b) long

- Macau: short, additional flashing to the feet
- HK: short, no additional falshing to the feet
- Hong Kong: long, no additional falshing to the feet
- LL: long, additional falshing to teh feet

So without using the PEG holes I can find two points which combinations seem to be unique.

it would be better to find four different in one place but well...seems impossible on GG I guess??




Hey Wolff, I agree it seems to be impossible to find one distinguishing feature for the four GG families.

I took a closer look at my Gammies and I am not sure if I can find the short/long crease you mentioned:  unsure 

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggbellyswpc24



But I think I found sth on Gammy's side. It's the same distribution as your crease. Hong Kong and LL seem to have more details on the sides than HK and Macau:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggsidesaweeb



The chest circle details look as they are not distinct. Maybe I am wrong but the differences on this seem to differ within the families:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggchestcirclessldcov



Like Alex pointed out it seems that a unique characteristic for the Hong Kong family are the EPM on the legs:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Gghongkongepms4gd1t



I think it's like Wollf said, we need to examine two features to describe each GG family clearly:

The flashes on the soles and maybe the different looking sides (as I'm not able to see the crease differences mentioned by Wolff - or is it the same???  Embarassed )


What attracted my attention - and I know I've read about that before - are the different head sculpts of the GGs. As you know from the pictures above I have 8 GGs in my collection. When I examined them to find differences I noticed that 7 of them had the same head sculpt and only one had the alternate sculpt. It's a No COO derived from the HK mould:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggheadsl2e5n

Now I'm wondering if all families can have this alternate sculpt or just the HK family or even just the No COOs from this family? And I'm wondering if this head sculpt is rare compared to the other or is it just coincidence that I have just one of them but seven of the other sculpt?
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed May 07, 2014 5:23 pm

Great work Patrick, GG certianly is a n awkward one, especially trying to two unique differences per family.

I'll check over mine and compare them against yours, and I'll check mine for the head sculpt difference, although heads are certainly a bad point for family recognition as has been proven.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu May 08, 2014 3:56 am

That would be great Alex. If you want I can send you these pics in a higher resolution, so you could have a closer look to the characteristics of my GGs.

What I think is really interesting too is the chest circle on one of my Macaus. It's the one on the far left in the second row. I don't know how to express this accurate in English but I would say there are nipples on the nipples.  cyclops  Whereas my other GGs have just nipples without additional nipples on them.

I agree with you that it's disputable to refer to "removable" heads for family recognition but thought it's interesting that I have only one GG with this different head sculpt.

I'm curious about your examination on your GGs.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu May 08, 2014 8:38 am

Rog did some research on the faces (but the pictures are gone  Sad  )
https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3957-the-tig-fotw-thread-gamorrean-guard

I guess I'll be looking at my Gam Guard's nipples soon  Embarassed   lol! 
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu May 08, 2014 10:37 am

Thanks for the link James. Seems that Rog's "Face B" (which is obviously my "different head sculpt") occurs only on the HK GGs (and of course on the corresponding No COOs). Maybe it's really just on this family??? But if it is so, why is "Face A" also present on this family and why "Face B" not on the other families?
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu May 08, 2014 4:03 pm

Patrick I've checked my GG's and I agree, the chest circle detail does appear to change wth in families, I have Macau and H.K. GG's that have both the smooth and the stippled bit behind the bumps.

Also, interestingly, all of my GG's have the same face sculpt apart from my No COO (H.K. family) which has the different sculpt the same as yours  :scratch: 
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 09, 2014 7:42 am

Thanks Alex for checking your GGs.

I think we can state now that the four Gamorrean Guard families can be only identified by a combination of two features: The flashes on the soles and the details on the side.

(As Wolff hasn't yet released the GG in his COO Guide 3.0 I just name the four families myself. Hope that's okay Wolff.  Wink )



Gamorrean Guard


The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggfeetmarkedsktjwh
The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggrightsidemarkeds76kyb

I Hong Kong: no flashes on soles + detailed side
II HK (+ related No COO): no flashes on soles + less detailed side
III Macau (+ related No COO): flashes on soles + less detailed side
IV No COO (Lili Ledy): flashes on soles + detailed side



The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggepmsyajbj

Family I (Hong Kong) can be identified alternatively by the EPM on the legs.



The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Ggfacesgzkae

To date it seems that Face B (the different head sculpt) only appears on family II (HK + related No COO) whereas Face A appears on all families.


It would be great if other members could check their GGs to confirm or disprove the Face B assumption.

Cheers,
Patrick
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri May 09, 2014 4:48 pm

Great work Patrick and thanks  cheers 
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 11, 2014 1:25 pm

Hey Patrick...I ment a different crease...I have two minutes...will try to make some pics *fingers crossed*
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 11, 2014 1:36 pm

you will figure it out (what is what) Alex and Patrick Wink

Here is what I mean:

The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Gg_mol10
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun May 11, 2014 1:50 pm

Cheers Wolff Smile it will have to wait until tomorrow now, I've stared at that fat bastard way to much this week already!

Anyway, Gamorrean Guard is Patricks now  Razz 
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon May 12, 2014 2:59 am

Not much to contribute right now, just wanted to say thanks to Patrick, Alex and Wolff, for trying so hard to find these tiny mould differences for GG.

Keep on the great work, guys!  cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 17, 2014 6:52 am

Hey Wolff, thanks for the pics. I've had a quick look at my pigs and am not completely sure about these creases. My Hong Kong and my LL seem to have the long crease and my Macaus seem to have the short one but I'm not sure if my HKs have the long instead of the short crease??? I think I will have to look closely on my GGs again and keep you up to date.

Marco, thank you for your kind words. I'm glad that you like our observations on mould differences.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread   The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat May 17, 2014 7:50 am

AT-AT Driver


The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Atatcoo-familiesv2oxspx



The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Atatdriverfrontmarked2ssok

I thin right thumb - II thick right thumb - III fingernail on right thumbs
(Note: The left thumbs seem not to be a good identifier because family I can have thick left thumbs too.)

I and II wider crease on ankle - III smaller crease on ankle

Not a mould but a spray op difference: I small black points next to the mouth - II and III bigger black points next to the mouth



The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Atatdriverbackmarkedvhcs9g

I smooth - II and III crease on the back

I bigger dot & rectangle in the back square



The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Atatdriverrightsidemahlsip

I short groove - II & III long groove

I half circle - II & III half an oval

I and II bigger "triangle" on upper arm pocket - III smaller "triangle" on upper arm pocket

I and III smooth - II scar on the side of the forearm



The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Atatdriverhelmetmarkecpsiz

Another spray op difference: I pointed black triangle on helmet - II and III blunt black triangle on helmet



The Mould Family Guide & Discussion Thread - Page 3 Atathkusc5s63

I nearly no groove - II & III deeper groove on the back of the head
I & II thick part on shoulder - III thin part on shoulder



Last edited by pattejan on Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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